AMD's CEO Wants to Chip Away at Nvidia's Lead | The Circuit with Emily Chang

There's no shortage of drama when it comes to chip making. Even when you're winning the game changes.

Do you ever feel like you're running a race that just never stops? Oh, of course, of course. Absolutely.

That's exactly what we're doing. I'm running like a different company every few years. Hmm. Like the industry is changing that fast.

The technology that we're building is changing that fast. It's a fantastic race though, because each race is different.

It's like a different movie, but it's a, a more exciting movie each time. Today is a really big Lisa Su, the CEO

of advanced micro devices likes to be in the driver's seat. Born in Taiwan and raised in New York with a passion

for electrical engineering and three degrees from MIT. Su worked at a couple of big name chip makers before.

Clinching a big victory transforming AMD from a failing chip company into a formidable force in gaming

PCs and the cloud. She's quick to remind us that her secret weapon is an obsession with the tech itself.

Her no-nonsense approach probably helps too. I've heard you don't take [bleep] from anyone. Who's told you that?

Seriously. I've heard your, your toughest nails and I'm sure you have to be. Well,

I like to win if that's okay. I would tell people I was doing semiconductors

and they would say what? Like, what's that? Like you build chips. Like what does that mean? People didn't even understand like

where technology really fit in the grand scheme of things. Like now everybody knows, like everybody talks about chips,

Chip rule just about everything around us. It's one of the most ubiquitous and consequential technologies in the world.

They power your smartphones, cars, planes, power grids, the internet, the global economy,

and even Formula One races where AMD sponsored the Mercedes AMG Petronas team.

And I think the adaptability that you need to have in this sport is similar to a high performance real world company.

The technology develops and that's why it's so much fun. And what I love is the stopwatch never lies.

Chips are at the heart of a global technology race and a battle for supremacy between China and the United States.

So for the AMD CEO, the heat is on. She's in the middle of a race of her own, pulling off the impossible

by surpassing archrival intel only to find that AI has completely changed the game,

and now Nvidia is in the lead. I'm in Austin to see how Su competes on and off the track,

and if she can pull off the unthinkable once again.

Hello. Hello. Thank you so much for doing this. Oh, thank you. Thank you for coming. So the first thing we did when we got here is we went

to your lab and your engineers made us this chip.

Wow. It's our own chip. The circuit on a circuit.

This is our epic with the circuit with Emily Chang. You've been CEO of AMD for 10 years.

You've been working in the chip industry for decades. But I wanna go back to a moment.

When did you first hear that you were gonna be CEO of AMD? It's a phone call you get from your chairman of the board

and he said, Lisa, can you talk? I'm like, sure. And he goes, it's time.

And I'm like, time for what? He, he said, you know, the, the board has, you know,

made a decision and they would like you to be the next CEO. I said, okay.

Well how did that feel? Because it was a tough time. AMD was trading at $2 a share. One guy said it was deader than dead.

What made you think you could prove them wrong? The opportunity to be CEO of AMD was truly like a dream come true.

It's like, wow, okay. Like you, you think that maybe you can do this and here you're gonna have the opportunity to lead a, a,

a major semiconductor company on yes, you're right. It wasn't the best time,

but I was pretty confident that we had the right pieces.

They just needed to be put together in the right way. AMD was founded in 1969

by executives from Fairchild Semiconductor, the famed company that pioneered integrated circuits.

Founder Jerry Sanders was famous for saying, "Real men have fabs." Those are the plants that manufacture chips.

AMD started off as a memory chipmaker like Intel and followed its larger rival into new markets,

but always struggled to achieve the scale and performance Intel enjoyed. With a cash crisis on its hands,

AMD had to spin off those fabs and outsource its manufacturing. A sign

of the uphill battle Su was facing, few believed AMD would make it, until she started making her moves.

Now AMD stock is trading in a totally different stratosphere. Was there a moment along the way

where you really saw a MD turn a corner? Probably the most important moment for us

was the launch of our new architecture, the launch of Zen. You'll hear us talk about Zen a lot.

Zen was our clean sheet design to, you know, really design the next generation

architecture in in CPUs for the next, you know, decade

AMD's main competition in designing the best chips comes from two players, Nvidia in graphics processing units or GPUs

and Intel in central processing units or CPUs. A CPU is the Swiss army knife of semiconductors.

They run operating systems and programs, retrieve files and are generally the heart of a computer.

A GPU or graphics chip is much more specialized. They were designed to do multiple small

calculations simultaneously. That parallel processing makes them ideal for AI.

We've told you our brand, the new Zen architecture put AMD back on top and gave it a range of chips capable

of taking market share from Intel. You proved the naysayers wrong, that has to feel like vindication.

Like do you ever just like shut the door and go Yes. All by yourself?

I don't know that I do that Emily. You know,those first few years were more about just stabilizing the

company and getting ourselves on a good roadmap. And then we went through a period of just tremendous growth

around the portfolio. And now we're in the AI world. This current AI wave is moving so fast.

How would you describe the pace right now? I truly believe AI is the most transformational

technology that I've seen in my career. And you know, we've seen all kinds of technology transitions. We've seen the rise of the internet, we've seen, you know,

the rise of the PCs, mobile phones, cloud, all of these things were all really mega trends.

I think AI actually surpasses all of that. The rate and pace of change in the industry,

it's like faster than anything we've ever seen. It's like we've made more progress in the last 18 months than certainly the last 10 plus years.

Now to win and keep winning, you have to keep at the pace and keep bringing the heat over decades. How do you keep up your own pace? Personally,

I really enjoy just the learning part of technology and the learning part of being in, in our industry.

Like, I spend a lot of time with our engineers as they're developing products. And in every one of those conversations I learned something

and I learned something that I can then say, Hey, you know, maybe we should do this just a little bit differently.

I come here for two reasons. I come when there are good things 'cause I, you know, wanna be able to see some

of the new technology myself. And then I come when there's a problem and when there's a problem, I'm here to cheer them up. I

Oh, to cheer them up. Oh yes. Not to crack the whip. No. 'cause At the end of the day, like, These guys love what they Do.

I've heard you make some late night trips to the lab. I've done late nights, I've done weekends.

I don't wanna surprise them. It'd be too much for a surprise. I can't just pop in. Might have a heart attack. That's right.

I'm gonna show you some of our latest tech. This is a gaming chip. We're pretty sure when it launches it will be the

fastest gaming chip in the world. What makes you think this is the fastest gaming chip in the world?

It has a special technology, which we call X3D, which puts, you know,

memory really stacked on top of the processor. So it's phenomenal for gaming The fastest gaming chip in the world.

Does it look like it? Who would know? She would. We talked a lot about AI. Yeah.

You, you need to at least see the technology. I wanna see it. So let's take a look here. Bring it on. Yeah. So what we have here is our,

these are our AI chips. This is MI300. Engineering sample

it says, and this is how it looks actually on the board.

It's heavy, the weight of ai. So this is, this is currently in production. One of the things that, that we run is, you know, sort

of a lot of the AI workloads, the stuff that's running on Microsoft Azure, you know, GPT GPT-4o

Those things. They're running on MI 300. Meta's LLAMA. Did I hear that you refer

to these machines as your children? They're all my kids, yes. So if, if you were to actually step into my library at home,

you would see chips galore. 'cause every time I launch a chip, like I, I save that

as a, as a souvenir. And there's no favorite, although I have to say this, this,

I mean, this, this one is, has, has gone a long way. So Shh. Don't say it too loudly.

In this new race to deliver the best chips for AI Su is focused on catching up to Nvidia. A niche player

that got its start in the nineties making chips for computer graphics and video games, Nvidia realized early on that its GPUs could be pivotal

for AI and suddenly blew past its competitors. When chat GPT came on the scene,

NVIDIA's chips are the hot commodity for Meta, Google and Amazon sending its stock through the roof

and besting Apple as the most valuable company in the world. Nvidia is seen as the dominant force in AI right now.

And AMD is widely considered the next best option. Is that good enough for you? Do you like being seen as the underdog?

I wouldn't call it a like, or, or dislike. What I would say is, you know, AMD has had a history

of doing amazing things and from, from that standpoint, we've always been in this place where we,

we haven't necessarily had the same amount of people that, you know, other larger companies have,

but we've certainly punched well above our weight in certain terms of technology capability. In terms of impact on the industry.

This is the most complex, highest performance computer. People are kind of obsessed with the fact that you

and Jensen are distant cousins. I know that you are competitors, but do you ever trade notes?

Well, first of all, Jensen is brilliant. So I fully admire him for that.

We were really distant, so we didn't grow up together. You know, we, we actually met at an industry event,

so it wasn't until we were well into our careers. So no family dinners? No, just to, just to put the rumor

to rest. No family dinners. And It's an interesting coincidence. So many of your customers are building their own chips,

hyperscalers like Apple and Meta and Google and Microsoft and Amazon. Is that a threat?

This is a huge market, Emily. There's like more than enough chips for everybody to build.

Mm. And the beauty of this is everyone's recognized that, you know, chips are so important.

Yes. So it's natural that they're gonna have their own capability. Has the shakeup of a very established industry surprised even you?

It has a little bit, I have to say, when you think about this conversation about the resiliency of the world,

depending on, you know, semiconductor diversification, like those kinds of things, you know, those are are big things.

They're beyond an industry. They're, they're really sort of underpinning sort of the global economy, you know,

underpinning national security. It is something that for someone who's been in semiconductors

for a long time, it's different. This is a very complex business with trillions of moving parts.

One wrong bet or manufacturing delay can cost billions and give competitors the chance to jump ahead.

Just ask Intel. It's just been a stunning fall from grace. This company used to be the world's dominant chipmaker

Over the years, they have fallen away from being the leader. Their technology is not advanced. We saw the worst share decline in about 40

years for the company. They gave a very grim growth forecast. They also made or announced plans to slash 15,000 jobs.

They've always been on the brink and they always seem to find a way. But we've never seen anything like this Back in San Francisco.

I wanted to get perspective on the changing dynamics of the chip industry from Bloomberg reporter Ian King,

who knows the stakes better than anyone else. Explain the pace of the chip industry.

Does it feel like a race to you? It's absolutely a race. It's a murderous race. You fall behind, you are in big trouble.

For decades, Intel had more resources than anybody else, more revenue, and was way ahead. It set the agenda, takes five years off,

basically made some bad decisions that it shouldn't have made. And now we're in a position where they might never catch up again.

Right. The train does not wait for anybody. What do you think Lisa's legacy will be? It's already cast in, in stone, right?

They're going to build a statue of her because she took a company that was and also ran that used to get laughed at.

Almost made a difference, right? A-M-D, and made it a significant provider

of cutting edge technology. A serious company, one that people believe in and trust, and she did that.

Are we trading the dominance of one company for another? The direction for the industry was set by Intel for decades.

Right now, the whole AI thing is built on Nvidia. Nvidia is coming out with software, new chips, new services,

faster than anybody else's. And everybody's just following them because that's the easy thing to do. At a, at a certain point they become utterly pervasive

and then the cost of replacing them becomes difficult. So what does AMD have to do to catch up?

Depends what you mean by catch up, right? This, this industry tends to have a very strong player, number one in each market.

A good number two, and then a number three where you're like, why are you bothering. At the moment, AMD is a

solid number two. And doing well, they have billions of dollars of revenue from this AI accelerator

that they didn't have last year. So they're doing way better. But compared to the tens of billions of dollars

that Jenssen's bringing in at Nvidia, they're a long way behind. Let's talk a little bit about the geography.

How did the chip industry become so concentrated in Taiwan? The industry is concentrated in South Korea,

in memory in Taiwan with logic manufacturing. Intel used to sneer at them

and say outsourced manufacturing in semiconductors doesn't make sense. It's, it's not practical. It'll never be as good as we are.

Guess what? It's way better than they are right now. It's enabled it Nvidia, it's enabled a MD and a host of other companies that could never compete

with Intel to do more than compete to win because it's providing the best manufacturing in the world.

However, this has created a very geopolitically difficult situation. Taiwan is at its closest point,

about a hundred miles away from the coast of mainland China. As you know, China regards Taiwan as a rogue province

and part of its sovereign territory. That tension has existed. The US has been the guarantee of, of Taiwanese safety

with chips becoming more and more important geopolitically. And we've seen that tension arise. Obviously there's concern

that maybe China takes a strategic look at Taiwan in terms of taking hold of it.

Will silicon ever move back to Silicon Valley in a meaningful way? Like will chip manufacturing come back to the US?

I think we will see chip manufacturing back in the US. I think we should recognize though

that the semiconductor world is global. Like that ship has sailed. Was moving manufacturing abroad a mistake?

In hindsight, I think we would've been happier if there was more manufacturing in the US. American manufacturing,

the backbone of our economy began to get hollowed out. Companies moved jobs overseas. Today we're down

to producing only around 10% of the world's chips, despite leading the world in research and design of new chip technologies.

The US government is considering capping exports of your chips and Nvidia's to other countries. Is that the right call?

The technology that we're building is some of the most powerful chips in the world. And so we totally get that

there's a national security element of it. We want there to be as open a market as possible while still taking into account, you know,

the national security interests. And it's a give and take. Do you worry about the future of Taiwan?

We all worry about ensuring that there is resiliency in the supply chain.

So put China and Taiwan aside. A few years ago we had, you know, a big storm in Texas and like things were out for like a few days.

You know, that's geographic concentration that you wanna make sure that there's resiliency for. You were born in Taiwan and I know you go back

to your hometown often. What's your favorite thing to do when you're not visiting fabs?

You know, I really do love Taiwan and I was born in Tainan so it was a small city in the southern part of, of Taiwan.

Actually. I was just there not too long ago to, to visit family. And we have a big family, like, you know,

my dad had like nine siblings. Wow. And my mom had like six, so it was like a big family.

So there are lots and lots of cousins and aunts and uncles and all of that. And so yeah, it's just fun to, to kind of be a part of that.

Everyone's curious about the habits of super successful leaders. What are your go-tos? Like what's in your daily routine?

Well, this morning I was up at 6:30 boxing. So that's in the daily routine.

You need to have energy when you start a morning. Heck yeah. And uh, a day is either, you know,

here in the office or it's on the road. But when I'm here in Austin, it's, it's, it's a good day.

When the pace is relentless and perfect execution is the only option. Sometimes you need to take your foot off the gas

and watch another team compete for some inspiration. Formula 1 is the most technologically advanced motor

motorsport in the world. And AMD's chips give the Mercedes F1 team an edge in the competition.

Su is giving us a front row seat to the action because, well, she likes fast cars too.

We have a lot of Porsches in our family. That's our, that's our thing. One of the things is all

of my cars have like our product names on it. So I have a, a Ryzen and I have an Epic

and I have a Radeon and I have like an Epic two. That's amazing. Yes. See, I heard there's an AMD color way.

There is a color palette. The epic color is graphite blue metallic. And it's, it's a gorgeous color.

And that's a color of your Porsche. It is. That's epic. When you look at a car, an F1 car,

does it look like a computer on wheels to you? It absolutely does. And, and that it's actually even more than that. I mean the, the car itself is just one

piece of the equation, right? What's so amazing about the entire Formula 1 technology is

it's the car, but then it's also just everything behind it that helps get the car ready.

I mean, it's filled with chips and sensors. I love the fact that, you know, you know, Toto actually keeps us informed about how things are going

and you know, it's great that our technology helps them make some of those adjustments. At Formula 1,

along with Star Driver Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes racing boss. Total Wolf is an institution.

He works hand in hand with companies like AMD and a team of elite engineers to push the limits of speed and performance for their cars.

There's a million different things that go into winning. How do you figure out the one thing that nobody else knows? There is no such thing as one thing.

I agree with you. It's true. Absolutely. - Chip industry or motor racing is just good engineering, empowerment of people, development of people

and, and giving them the tools to come up with good ideas and make them make them reality.

Speaking of the technology, how do you think AI is gonna change racing? Engineers would always say the weakness of the car sits

between the steering wheel and the engine. Because it's irrational, it has good and bad days.

This human interaction is difficult to replicate because it's an infinite amount of data.

We generator driver has so many sensors, we have hundreds of millions, if not billions of sensors in our body

that make the individuals still much superior to the machine and the racing car. So we are in our infant shoes in terms of AI

and application Formula 1. Lewis how are you? It's so great

to see you. Lovely to see you. What's your vibe today? What do you think? How you feeling? Practice one was horrendous, it's like the worst practice.

I had a big spin. This is the circuit when all the high speed, it's all about confidence. You have to get building blocks.

So when you have a spin like that, it knocks you down the ladder that you don't have a lot of time to get back there. So in this session, I just have to like, go for it,

hope that the car is there. And you're so involved on the engineering side of things, like what drives you to do that?

That's the fun part. Yeah. That's where you tap into your creativity, right? I'm not a designer in, in terms of car,

but I love trying to understand it and trying to see if I can pull something up. The designs they have already done.

Yeah. By the way, Lewis is a gamer too, so he uses some of our gaming technology. Okay. Yes. Yeah. I only ever play Call of Duty, but I've been looking

recently, like what else is there? I know there's a lot that I'm missing. The thing that there's such nice parallel

with Formula 1 is we learn in every race, it's the same thing in, in our world in technology, right? We learn with every customer environment

that we put our technology in with the, the entire, you know, F1 season, like every, every race you learn something and you adjust.

While it's still early days in the next great technology race, Su has shown she can master a pivot and deliver results.

Something none of her predecessors could at a company that many had written off. And typical of Su, she skips the victory lap

and is laser focused on the next step forward. What else do you wanna accomplish in the world, aside from making AMD succeed?

I'm passionate about the next generation of leadership. So I, you know, I was very lucky in my career.

People paid attention and, and, you know, gave me opportunities. I believe that's part of my job as well.

There should be more women in technology. I think there are more, like, we've made a lot of progress over the last number

of years, but there's a lot more to do. So what's the lesson in there? Have confidence in yourself, right? Take a chance.

Like, don't worry about failure. Like sit in those meeting rooms and say what's on your mind

and volunteer. I was given this advice when I was a young engineer. It was, you know, run towards problems.

And what does that mean? It means, look, we're all gonna work really hard every day. You might as well work really hard on something

that is really important. And so look for that hardest problem to solve and volunteer to help

because you're, you're gonna learn a lot in the process. You're gonna distinguish yourself

and what's the worst thing that's gonna happen? Like you make a mistake, okay, fine, get up the next day is another day,

and you'll have learned so much in that process.